I took a class once on how to logically Defend Life. They taught us practical and very logical arguments that would stump even the most vocal pro-choicers. It was great. I used that class so much. I pulled out arguments in situations that I would have otherwise remained silent or just stumbled over my words.
I feel like I need a class in defending the Church's teaching on birth control, ART, IVF, etc. these days. With all the activity around Sew's post, it makes me want to declare and defend this teaching to no end. But what do you say? How do you express this teaching logically, quickly and in a way that someone might actually 'get it'??
I feel constantly attacked whenever this subject comes up. My non-Catholic, non-religious friends all know my stance on these issues. But do they know why I feel as I do? Do they get it? No. I've tried to explain it... but my words get jumbled and I'm sure I just sound like a conservative idiot to them... going on and on about the evils of birth control and the beauty of giving yourself completely to your spouse. I'm just not hip and in touch with the modern world. I'm perfectly ok with that and wouldn't have it any other way.
I often find myself just remaining quiet when all my girlfriends are talking about how great their birth control is, what they are on and what 'works best' for them... how much they love it... how they are having a little party once their husbands get snipped... whatever they need to get the ultimate goal... NO baby! Or how IVF and ART are just no big deal and a way to get the ultimate goal... a baby (when and how they want it). I need to speak up, but I cannot find the words, or maybe the courage, to stand up and fight!!
In that situation, what are simple, quick and logical explanations to use? I don't have time to go in-depth about the beauty of Theology of the Body. I'll leave that to the follow-up conversations. Religious arguments won't convince them, especially my totally non-believing friends. They just tune me out the moment before I even begin. I have less then a minute before they think I've completely lost it in my little conservative bubble. How do you explain this to someone that quick who just doesn't get it?? What do I say when counter my argument and say that NFP is just Catholic birth control and the same thing as what they are doing? I know it is not... but they always fire back with that one!
So.... suggestions?? Fabulous ideas?? Resources??
P.S. This might be a great topic for a certain blog... say one that has the word Catholic bubble in the title. Hint, Hint. :)
32 comments:
Oh, wow, this is a great post! I agree, it's the hardest thing to do, to respond to a situation quickly when it comes up. I really dread those situations, because the the culture is SO intoxicated by the Culture of Death, that how does one speak the truth in a few words and hope to counteract that? (Or even more basically, how does one not come off like a total freak?)
I have a post on my blog today about IVF and a priest's dilemma. It doesn't exactly address this particular problem you pose, but it's worth looking at.
Your post today does remind me of something major that happened to me when teaching about the life issues in our parish.... I almost forgot about it, but I need to do a post on it SOON! Thanks for the inspiration!
And, I would love to hear everyone's advice about what to do "on the spot" because I don't have a great answer for that one. It's part of why I stay in my little Catholic bubble, ha! Hubby and I did recently go to dinner with a couple who were expecting twins via IVF. They were Catholic, but not too informed, obviously!! I dreaded the dinner (I had never met them before) because of the whole IVF conversation that might come up, knowing I had no gentle or smooth way of telling her she had done WRONG in conceiving these precious boys this way. I got through the dinner okay, and nothing really came up for me to address the situation, but I did get to work in some things about my own journey and how I found the truth in our wonderful Church. By the way, her dad is a deacon and even he didn't tell her not to do the IVF apparently.... sigh.....
Wow Leila.....I would have dreaded that too...But it is easy to see that just because you go to church doesn't make you catholic. Just like sleeping in a garage doesn't make you a car. ;) It's not judging either. ;) Did you ask her how her other babies were doing?
Here is what we can do....
We are all in this situation so we can all come up with things to say that are quick. We are all guided by the truth. We can answer jabs with truth. We are all smart! We can do this....Let's get this dialogue going....
Like my gf said today, you know her too, the truth doesn't need to be defended, the church is like a lion it can defend itself, it just needs to be spoken about. ;) Really it wouldn't be so attacked if it weren't the truth!
I do not think that saying it is against my religion is good because it just screams restrictions to people who do not understand but we need to address all sides.
I'm sure we can all play devils advocate as well...
Just do IVF?
Don't you want a baby?
What about surrogacy?
Why not BCP?
Why not vasectomy?
But we need quick in passing to the point stuff.
We got this! :)
I'm seeing a spin off to the bubble...It's spawning leila! hahahaha
Hello,
First off-many hearty congratulations to those of you successfully adopting children or currently pregnant. As someone you would so readily label from the "culture of death" I actually do love children and wish you all to grow happy, healthy families.
I understand your frustration that those of us on birth control and/or who support choice for the most difficult decisions a woman and man can make about their procreation "don't get it." However, as you swirl your epithets at "culture of death" and the intoxication of birth control all around, I wonder if you actually understand the other side either? I happen to live in a very Catholic oriented state so I am more aware of the anti-abortion signs and choose life billboards. Every year, a pro-life group decsends on our state university, complete with graphic, bloody images of fetuses.
I do use a hormone based method of birth control and I wonder if any of you consider the positions from which you stand when you denounce birth control. I gather most of you never had pre-marital sex (and look down on those of us who have), you are married to men who believe that it is their sole responsibility to financially support the home and you speak from a background of class and heritage that gives you privilege. How am I supposed to "get" the no birth control concept if I am 1) not Catholic 2) engaged in a happy healthy sexual and committed relationship 3) pursuing a career that will support me intellectually and financially and make me able to responsibly care for myself and any children I may have.
One last point-I notice that despite the strong pro-life stance, there are frequently comments on Faith and Family live from women who do not desire more children, are having trouble charting their cycles and fear the perceived financial, physical and emotional burden of having more children than they can feed and take care of. They also feel incredibly guilty for their very real concerns. My heart goes out to these women too.
Thank you,
Miss G
Miss G, Hello! I just want to give some background info on me because your assumptions are wrong: I was on the Pill for many, many years from the age of 17 till after I was married. After that, it was condoms for years. I was definitely not a virgin when I married, and without going into too much detail, I will tell you that I did not embrace a chaste or monogamous lifestyle if you know what I mean. I actually thought I was a "devout" Catholic, though. My story is on my sidebar on my blog if interested.
Leila,
apologies for my assumptions. I see you speak from a place of wisdom and experience.
Thanks, Miss G. And you should hear Sew's story! Her background blows mine out of the water....
http://sewinfertile.blogspot.com/2010/06/my-faith-story.html
Here is a link to Sew's "hell on earth." You may find why she has such passion around this issue.
One more thought if you will indulge me?
I don't subscribe to the theory that only those who have suffered hell on earth can speak truth and wisdom. I thank God that truth and wisdom can come from the mouth (or blog) of the pure as well. Truth and wisdom don't come from us, after all, but from God who is all-wise, all-true, and unchanging.
Miss G,
Yes, as my faith story says it, my innocence was taken from me at a very young age. I had no regards or respect for sex, my body or anything. I was a rebellious teenager and looking back I was doing only what the sin and effects of the abuse I experienced taught me.
So you see I'm not being judgemental and I take that offensively when I have a differing opinon. Because I can tell you by the age of 7, I was not a virgin and it wasn't by my own agreeance, I already viewed myself as damaged goods. But that is what makes this so beautiful because it is passion that is born of the mistakes we made in the past, sins that were put on us by the hands of other and a true testament that He makes all things new.
I have lived in the world as if I owned it, virignity, what did that mean? I did everything the world told me to do, but I bore no fruit. Only an emptiness that could not be filled no matter what I did. It was a constant trap that I fell into and to see another sweet sister of mine fall into it pains me because I understand that pain.
That is why I think as you might see us as being judgemental, I understand the under the viel issues in some women. Why women are premisucus because they are looking for love in ways they were not given love or even in ways they were shown this is what TRUE love is. I was told that by those sinful acts put upon me that is what love looked like....
But unfortunately, being the product of abuse and negating it with sexual promescuity did nothing for the dignity of my human person.
It destroyed me more. So here I was 20 year old little me, running wild destroying myself even more, knowing that I was in a deficit already and adding to it but not knowing how to get out. It's a vicious evil cycle.
I wasn't there yet, I understood what was going on but I wasn't ready to face the fact that I had to give up how the world told me to live and start to respect myself and hold myself as someone with self respect and not someone who should be used like a used car and someone was taking it for a test drive.
Whatever all of that doesn't get to the point...
"you are married to men who believe that it is their sole responsibility to financially support the home and you speak from a background of class and heritage that gives you privilege"
I scratch my head at this because I surely live in a modest home, with a modest car and we do not live beyond our means but within the fruits of my husbands labor and he is in sales so it gets beyond tight sometimes. I'm the oldest of 6 and my parents were not rich and made do.
"How am I supposed to "get" the no birth control concept if I am 1) not Catholic 2) engaged in a happy healthy sexual and committed relationship 3) pursuing a career that will support me intellectually and financially and make me able to responsibly care for myself and any children I may have."
Well I say to this look under the viel...Our God is a life giving God. He claims it everywhere in the bible...He died to give us life...
1.) Few realize that up until 1930, all Protestant denominations agreed with the Catholic Church’s teaching condemning contraception as sinful. At its 1930 Lambeth Conference, the Anglican church, swayed by growing social pressure, announced that contraception would be allowed in some circumstances. Soon the Anglican church completely caved in, allowing contraception across the board. Since then, all other Protestant denominations have followed suit. Today, the Catholic Church alone proclaims the historic Christian position on contraception.
Also, The Bible mentions at least one form of contraception specifically and condemns it. Coitus interruptus, was used by Onan to avoid fulfilling his duty according to the ancient Jewish law of fathering children for one’s dead brother. "Judah said to Onan, ‘Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.’ But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he slew him also" (Gen. 38:8–10).
The biblical penalty for not giving your brother’s widow children was public humiliation, not death (Deut. 25:7–10). But Onan received death as punishment for his crime. This means his crime was more than simply not fulfilling the duty of a brother-in-law. He lost his life because he violated natural law, as Jewish and Christian commentators have always understood. For this reason, certain forms of contraception have historically been known as "Onanism," after the man who practiced it, just as homosexuality has historically been known as "Sodomy," after the men of Sodom, who practiced that vice (cf. Gen. 19).
Contraception was so far outside the biblical mindset and so obviously wrong that it did not need the frequent condemnations other sins did. Scripture condemns the practice when it mentions it. Once a moral principle has been established in the Bible, every possible application of it need not be mentioned. For example, the general principle that theft is wrong was clearly established in Scripture; but there’s no need to provide an exhaustive list of every kind of theft. Similarly, since the principle that contraception is wrong has been established by being condemned when it’s mentioned in the Bible, every particular form of contraception does not need to be dealt with in Scripture in order for us to see that it is condemned.
Really I could spend the rest of the day typing away at this.... ;) But now I must go do errands....I know I'm missing a lot of what you said but I must go for now....I will wait your response since this is the first time I have been engaged and not just name called at.....Thanks Allthings for letting me tap away on your blog! ;)
Oh and Miss G. Thanks for engaging us and not name calling. There is really no need for that... ;)
Gwen - I'll chime in as well. While I'm not quite as die hard as these other ladies in their faith are...I am/was not pure an innocent. I had premarital sex, my husband doesn't work (I do), and I grew up in a double wide trailer in a tiny town raised with 3 sisters on $11.00 an hour. I do not come from a background of class nor heritage. I took birthcontrol for a while.
Believe me, until I became Catholic, I thought they were NUTS with their no birthcontrol and prolife stance, etc.
So I get it. I get the otherside (non-catholic). I get why people take birth control (my dad had a vasectomy to ensure no more kids were born). I get the frustration with pro-lifers. The in your face-ness.
I try to find a happy middle ground and sit there. While that additude is not a favorite of either side, that's where I choose to be.
Miss G.,
Thank you for engaging and for your comments! I love comments!
First of all… I should clarify … I was on birth control for years. I was first on birth control to “regulate” my horribly painful cycles and control ovarian cysts. Then, I used it for birth control. I SHUDDER to think of all the hormones I put in my body. While I was raised Catholic, I simply picked which teachings I would follow… if it fit into my life, great. If it didn’t… then I ignored it. I did what I want, when I wanted it… with little regarding to the moral implications. I’ve been on both sides. I didn’t begin to really dig into the logic and wisdom behind such teachings until later in my life. {see sidebar for faith story! } Luckily, I met DH after my ‘reversion’ if you will, and we were able to consummate our marriage after the wedding. We are, and will always be, open to life throughout our marriage. I love that! Do I wish I would have ‘waited’ for my DH? Yep, I sure do.
I was not raised in privileged at all. My parents were wonderful… but we did not have all the newest things, the latest gadgets, etc. We lived modestly in a small house with used cars and a tight budget. Both of my parents worked and my dad is still working. I have student loans and will have them for many more years. My DH and I both work. He is a teacher and I work in the social services field. I also work at a homeless shelter part-time to bring in extra money. Times are tough and we work hard for every penny and make it stretch as far as we can. I will most likely have to work when we have children. I even had to cancel a trip to see Sew (so sad!) last month because we had a water leak! Not fun, but it is reality.
I do think that the ease and convenience of birth control can enable people to do whatever they want, whenever they want, with whomever they want. People (and I’m not taking about you personally – obviously I don’t know you) tend to want to control their lives and make their own decisions based on how it makes them feel. I get that. I did it for years. I was in committed relationships pre-DH … I wanted to have sex… check. I didn’t want to have kids yet… check. I just popped a pill or got a shot. I wanted to sleep with someone else… check. It took all the ‘consequences’ away from me. It let me do whatever I wanted, without a second thought. No baby… no reason not to do what feels good, right? Moral implications? I just ignored those and they CANNOT be ignored. In the back of my mind I knew how I was living was not right. I felt it when I looked in the mirror. It was not how God intended me to live. I thank God everyday that I saw the light.
You can be in a committed relationship and not have sex. DH and I did this the entire time we were dating… and we are not the only ones. We were committed… and actively choose EVERY DAY to not have sex. It was not easy, but worth it. I could have popped a pill and delayed pregnancy until after we were married… no one would have known… but us! But we choose to live out our relationship how we felt God would want us to… which involved waiting and no birth control.
To be continued...
I hate character limits! Continuing on...
DH is not Catholic. He did not know why Catholics thought birth control had moral objections. I am so glad that I had to explain it to him… I think that’s when I really ‘got it’. I always try to say that God has control of every part of my life. Using birth control would be like saying, “God, you can have control of every part of my life… but I will be in charge of my reproduction! I know more than you on this one! You can have control of everything else… but I WILL DECIDE this part of my life!” That isn’t the best example, but that is how I think about it. As a control freak, would I like a little more control? Yes. Is that my right? No. If God is in control of my life, He is in charge of my life. Period. No exceptions. It is NOT easy. But is it worth it, yep. Plus… the fact that every time DH and I are together, we are totally self-giving. It’s an amazing feeling. We don’t use each other just for the enjoyment of it all… it’s so much more than that. We don’t have any barriers between us. It feels better than anything I ever did in the past, when I was just trying to have a good time. I wish everyone could experience this kind of love.
And finally, DH and I are both pursuing careers and have been through college and graduate school. I’m not sure what birth control and “pursuing a career that will support me intellectually and financially…” has to do with one another. If you are trying to be successful at a career, can you not practice NFP or abstinence? Can you not chart your cycle and go to college or work? Can you not be open to life if pursuing a career? Why not? Is it because the control is lost again?
Miss G, you mentioned the women on Faith and Family. While I am unfamiliar with the particulars, I feel for these women too… in many ways. They have been given a gift… and to some it might be a burden. I remember seeing this post… it might help with that.
Thanks again everyone for your comments!
Here is the post I was talking about earlier:
http://doctorgianna.blogspot.com/2010/05/lack-of-control-in-family-planning.html
Well, thank you for the the insight and commentary. I do appreciate it. I think perhaps I shouldn't say anymore as it will be diligently picked apart here and I'm a little outnumbered ; ) Also I don't want my every word to be perceived as offensive.
I think I have helped your cause in some small way by presenting my opposing viewpoint-now you have my argument to logically combat. More fodder for the fire!
In the meantime, I respect the differing viewpoints and choices to live life differently from me. I will continue to live my opposing life and use birth control.
Sew-thank you for the citation of contraception in scripture. I am not Catholic/Christian so my knowledge of the Bible is very limited.
Respectfully,
Miss Gwen,
We did not mean to make you feel outnumbered. :) That is how I feel when I walk around outside of my blogsphere, in the dressing room, on the playground, etc. Believe me I understand how draning it can be.
It has been a pleasure speaking with you today....
In Christ, Sew
Wow-I haven't seen this mature of a conversation in a long time! Well done ladies-all of you!
I don't feel the need to comment any further on the discussion, but I wanted to address your original question. I think we sometimes underestimate the power of "silence". By you sitting there not saying a word-most people will know EXACTLY how you feel about a particular subject. I know it may be overstated-but let your life do the talking. Let the love between you and your husband shine through and your silence will speak volumes!
Also, make sure you say a quick prayer to the Holy Spirit before saying ANYTHING!! If I only I took my own advice...
And lastly, I think that it's perfectly acceptable when confronted to say, "You know-I have very strong beliefs on the immorality of IVF (or anything) that are based on my Church's teaching and my own personal reflection. But I tend to have a really hard time articulating them when I'm on the spot. I'm sorry I can't explain myself right now, but I would be more than happy to share my beliefs with you in another setting." It may sound strange-but if they really want to know, they'll let you get your thoughts together!
Awesome Kaitlin! That is so true about the silence!! Excellent idea!
This post sums up a lot of what I have been feeling lately about wanting to talk more with those that don't believe in a lot of the Church's teachings on BCP, IVF, etc.. So I have thorougly enjoyed reading the responses!
Wonderful post, Jenny! It is something so hard to communicate to people when they are so comfortable in their routine, but for what it's worth, your argument for giving everything to God is a perfect way to reach people who are devout Christians. I think that this would really speak to them, and it isn't a weak example at all!
I am always struck by the irony of how people get so worked up about chemicals and horomones in food, but women think nothing of putting them in their body to affect their fertility.
It might also hit some people that the amount of hormones that are getting into the water due to birth control manufacturing is causing male fish to have female parts etc. It is terrible for the environment!
This doesn't create an argument for condoms and other barrier methods, but it provides a different perspective for non Christians/Catholics on why hormonal birth control is an issue.
You could also mention the population issues of Europe. They are not reproducing themselves! They are slowly dying out, and some governments are starting to offer money to mothers who choose to have more babies! It is a disaster in the making! So far the US is remaining stable with 2.1 children per woman, but if we aren't careful, we will be moving in the same direction!
Also, ladies, I don't know most of you, but I am really enjoying reading all your wonderfully Catholic thoughts. I am blessed to have a strong group of Catholic friends in real life, but Sew, I agree it is so easy to feel outnumbered in this world of ours. It is nice to feel connected in some way to even more like minded women!
Good morning again,
I just can't let this slide: I have no problem with being laughed at for using a hormonal ring to regulate my fertility while deliberating over whether to pay more for heirloom tomatoes versus conventionally grown ones.
However, life is rife with ironies and the Pro-Life movement has to contend with them too. Afterall a small but determined sector of Pro-Life activists stalk, harass and even murder clinicians working at abortion clinics and performing abortions. And if the pro-life movement really wants to make an impression on those of us who belong in the "culture of death" why not take it all the way? What do I mean? Exactly this: Maintain a vegetarian/vegan diet, eliminate use of leather in your life, refuse to neuter/spay any pets (lest you impinge on their right to procreate), practice protests of capitol punishment such as the recent firing squad incident at a prison in Utah, refrain from hunting and fishing, live below the taxable income limit so your money cannot go to support the federal governments programs that support abortions and more importantly, that pay for the weapons used to fight the two ugly and vicious wars we are currently engaged in in Iraq and Afghanistan.
And finally, I refuse to abstain from sex. So what's the lesser evil here? Using birth control or aborting a fetus? Is it really an evil notion to want to be done with school and in a successful career before starting a family?
I realize I'm no longer welcome here and I've ruffled too many feathers.
Thank you for letting me speak my mind. I won't try to incite with more comments.
peace,
G
Miss G,
Love it! Really, we have heard it all before so this is nothing new.
I promise I will get back to you on this...But I'm just plain exhausted right now.
You are welcomed and you haven't ruffled any feathers.... :)
Be back after a nap or tomorrow! ;)
In Christ, Sew
Miss G,
I'm not laughing at women who use hormonal birth control but choose organic produce. I was simply trying to raise a question. Why do women buy organic produce? Typically because they don't want to ingest all the chemicals and pesticides that are conventionally used. So if that is the case, and you are willing to go out of your way to buy organic, then why are women so quick to use hormonal contraceptive rather than go out of their way to use a more natural method of family planning?
I'm not being critical of any person in particular, and I didn't mean for you to take my comments personally. I'm just pointing out what seems like an interesting contradiction.
Your comments are appreciated, and as Sew said, you are definitely welcome here.
And I don't have time to respond to your other comments in depth, but I do want to mention that while we are called to respect animals as God's creatures, the pro life movement is about defending human life from conception to natural death. So capital punishment and euthanasia are definitely unacceptable on the same level as abortion, but right now the numbers of babies being killed far exceeds the number of inmates on death row and people affected by euthanasia. So the front lines of the pro life movement are on the abortion front so to speak.
Megan
Miss G, I am on a blog fast (sort of!) so I will only pipe in with one small comment: Why regulate your fertility with synthetic hormones, when fertility has its own natural regulation? Just find out how your body works, as designed, and go with that.... No need to medicate what is not an illness, right?
By the way, violence on the pro-"choice" side is much higher than vice versa. Check the stats.
http://abortionviolence.com/index.html
(and this excludes the violence against the unborn)
Gwen: First, I want to say that I do not think anyone has done anything to purposefully make you feel unwelcomed. You have been polite and articulate and I thank you profusely for that. I know you may feel outnumbered, but remember that you are on a Catholic lady’s blog and she has many similarly minded friends. I think it is safe to assume that out in the real world, you may be the majority and we the minority. We have been in your place – every.single.day. I assure you, all of us here feel “outnumbered” in our beliefs in everyday life. In fact, I think that is what this original post was about. While I know what it feels like to be outnumbered, I can promise you that I respect actual dialogue about our differences versus an F-U attitude. But you have to know that it doesn’t always end in a “you win” ending. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree, but the MOST important thing is to TRY to understand where the other is coming from. With that, I do want to answer each of your questions to the best of my ability.
As for the pro-life people who go to such extremes that they kill people – we don’t support them or that kind of hypocrisy. Yes, such extremists exist and do harm to any cause no matter what that cause is, but as you pointed out: they are a small minority. They do not speak for the rest of us. It would be difficult for me to name any cause which does not have a group of overzealous extremists who go to such lengths that they go against the very cause they supposedly support. I don’t think you are, but I do believe that others have asked “us” to explain or defend “them.” The answer is: We can’t. We won’t.
The rest of your position. I understand from your previous comment that you are not Christian (and I’m going to assume not Jewish) so I’ll spare you the details of the biblical belief that God gave humans dominion over all plants, animals, and creation and that, in and of itself, created in us a responsibility to not act like animals (in procreation or otherwise). I do believe that even those who do not have a religious belief system subscribe to the understanding that humans are on a separate level than animals (again, I’m sure there is an extremist group here who believes differently, but I am not asking you to speak/defend on their behalf). What I will stress is that our position is respecting HUMAN life from conception until death (and everything in between).
As for the death penalty, I personally do oppose it, have written about it, and argued about it for many of the same reasons I oppose abortion and the like. (Oddly enough, the “firing squad” method was a personal favorite of mine to discuss. As a side note: I have met and attended lectures by Sister Helen Pre.jean – author of “Dead Man Walking” – delightful lady and wonderful speaker). Why is it not such a hot-topic button? I have several theories, not the least of which is that the victims of one are innocent and the victims of the other are notorious criminals. One is a litmus test for public office, Presidency, Supreme Court nomination and the other. . . isn’t. Nonetheless, I assure you I am not a hypocrite in this regard. No. I didn’t fly to Utah. I have executions in my own state to contend with and those, I assure you, far outnumber the ones in Utah.
(This is new: I've never exceeded the maximum word count before)
Why not live below the taxable income? Because we are called to live up to our potential and ability and to try and better our environment, not succumb to it. Your suggestion, to me, sounds like we should ignore the problem rather than try to change it (be it through speaking, voting, etc.) You may not respect our position, but would you respect us crawling away and hoping it would go away? I want better for my country and for my world and abandoning it or going to live under a rock simply so I don’t have to deal with it is not an option. It would never occur to me to tell a pro-choice person to go live in a country that supports abortion, infanticide, etc.. Should an environmentalist go and live on a deserted island instead of trying to promote political change to the harms they see? Is that really trying to make a difference? Likewise, I do not wish you or anyone else who opposes me to disappear into the darkness (whether doing so through economic means or otherwise). I hope to discuss and to change, but even if I cannot change, I hope to achieve mutual understanding.
I didn’t get to respond to your earlier myths about “us”, but would like to speak about myself personally because I do feel that I understand you. I was not a virgin when I married my husband. I was not perfect then, nor am I now. I was a professional with a (hard fought) doctoral degree and for the first half of my marriage, I was the sole provider. My need for a career was no where near my need to provide for a family, but it was a need just the same. I understand wanting an established career (I may have eventually left it, but I understand the desire, climbing the ladder, the euphoria, gratification, responsibility and fears that come along with it). I was horribly scared to surrender myself, and to let go of my control. I understand the fear of getting pregnant, particularly in light of being a sole provider. I am not sure that it matters to you or anyone else, but I don’t want to be perceived as a person who is unable to understand your perspective. We may have had different reasons and different means, but I understand the journey just the same.
Likewise, I do not believe anyone would call me privileged or wealthy. My mother was a widowed secretary with two children (father died when I was 7). I worked through high school (while none of my friends had jobs), worked full-time through college (the only one we could afford), & worked through graduate school . . . as did my husband. I do not think this is a measure of a person in any way, but felt the need to assure you that you are not communicating with princesses who have never dealt with life or the real world.
. . .and I realized I missed out on the first leg of the discussion. I was just adding my .02 (or more) for the later points raised.
Also . . .what’s the lesser of two evils? Evil is evil. Therefore, one must refuse to choose between the two.
Ladies, can I share something with you? A few of you might know me. My name is Maria, I'm forty three, and I've been married for three years. My husband (he's forty five) and I have been trying to concieve for three years now. We haven't been able to get pregnant once. Two years ago, much to my devastation, I was diagnosed with endometriosis stage four. I've had two surgeries so far.
Many know of my husband and my struggle. Our family and friends. Co-workers. People who live in our apartment. Yesterday, out of the blue, I received an email from a young lady who just happens to be the neice of my best friend. She told me she knows how much I want to be a Mother and have a baby. She told me how much she wants to help me. She told me she prayed about it and she is convinced that God wants her to help me and my husband out. Guess what she offered to do? Be a surrogate Mother for me and carry our baby! Oh my gosh, when I received this email I was shocked! I still am!
Can you imagine how much I wanted to write her back immediately and say "Yes"? I mean, my hubby and I do not have many options left. I am going to be forty four in August and my periods started skipping last year right after my second surgery. Hubby and I would love to be able to foster adopt or adopt, but it's so expensive and we don't have enough money. We are living paycheck to paycheck. Also something happened to us both this year, which could make it impossible for us to ever adopt. I'm sorry, but I can't write about it here. So as you can imagine for a lady who has been teaching at daycare centers for twenty two years and loves children, always wanted her own, who cries often wanting a child so much, and feels so sad and discouraged about not being able to have a child of her own, well when someone emails you and offers to be a surrogate for you, it's really difficult (heart wrenching) to have to tell her no!!
I am not sure what to email back to this girl. She is a family friend, the neice of my best friend. I do not want to offend her. But even if this is the only way I can ever be a Mommy, I still have to say no! Why? Because I know in my heart and soul that God does not approve of surrogacy. As much as my heart aches and my arms ache to hold a baby and have my own child, I can't risk losing my soul (or hubby's soul). It is my job as his wife to help him reach heaven.
I know that I have to write this young lady and tell her no, but not sure how to do it without offending her. She is a very sweet girl and I know she has good intentions. But like I said before, I know God does not approve of babies being concieved through surrogacy or IVF.
By the way, I am asked all the time why hubby and I are not trying IVF. Usually I'm asked this question by people who have tried IVF.
Maybe you guys could pray for me? This infertility/endometriosis thing is so hard especially when me and hubby want a baby so much! Thanks!
Thinking of you and praying for you all!
Love,
Maria prayrosary4life@aol.com
Oh what a great post... I need to read thru the comments too. I think this is a big struggle. It's so difficult to have these conversations especially when people constantly celebrate these things. Even as an agnostic teen, tho, these issues did not sit right w/ me. I wonder if some sense the problems deep down too?
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